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This is part of my ongoing series of interviews with men on masculinity. I am sorry for the long hiatus in posting these. The travel I have been doing has gotten in the way a bit.

This interview is actually with a kinky, female, top who has been one of the most steadfast commenter on this series. Trinity (who has a brilliant blog) discusses how her BDSM role relates to her perceptions of masculinity and her own performance of it.

When was the first time you remember being aware of masculinity? How old were you? What was the cultural climate or influence?

Aware it existed? I don’t know, other than just a vague sense that men were threatening coupled with a vague sense that I wanted to do the things that our society said was sexually reserved for them. Feeling like I was an alien for being female and wanting those things. Wondering, years later, when I found a trans man’s website about sex, describing some of the things he did and wanted to do and how he did them, if that was me. Feeling like I’d finally found descriptions of sex and sexuality that fit.

I was more aware of femininity and how it didn’t fit, and how everyone either tried to convince me to fit it or called me “he.” I was very unhappy with either of those options. (I don’t so much feel uncomfortable with being read as male nowadays. I kind of like it. I wonder about transition, but I’m not sure I’d feel any more comfortable on the other end of the gender continuum than I do on this one.)

As far as really thinking about the word, not until a Women’s Studies class in college. The point was the social stereotypes of masculinity and femininity and how stifling they are, but I felt weird and attacked even though I understood. I felt like I was being described as this enemy to women, when as far as I could tell I was one. I didn’t like the word — as it was presented it described some pretty icky people, it seemed — but I liked what it was supposed to represent, and came to see myself as on the masculine side of androgynous.

Which I still do, and that’s part of why I wrestle with whether or not I qualify as “butch.” (That I’m queer but not a dyke — I tend to date men — is the other.) I dress in a way I’d call butch when I’m wearing clothes I feel good in, I fuck in a masculine way, I go by Sir in the leather community and wonder where the matron is when someone says Ma’am… but I wonder how much of that is sexual persona and how much is my essence. They’re definitely intertwined, but there’s a lot of kink in it all. Which sometimes makes me fear I’m trampling on the toes of people who have it harder, since they’re not “just” folks with a fetish.

Do you think of yourself as masculine? Why or why not?

I have kind of a love-hate relationship with the term. I use it because I still feel I’m a little too androgynous to be “butch,” but I’m not sure if I’m too androgynous to quite qualify as “masculine” either. “Masculine female” is the closest bad approximation when I’m trying to say that look, my sense of my gender and body and role and what I want from those things is not like what I see most women wanting.

How does your masculinity relate to your sexuality (be it your orientation, preferences, or expressions)?

I’m a stone (most of the time) top. I’d much rather penetrate than be penetrated, and while I don’t think that’s necessarily masculine (femmes with sparkly strap-ons under their skirts are yay, and no less feminine), for me it fits with my gender and my sense of myself in a way that I do think of as masculine.

While it may not be popular in Feministlund to say this, and I definitely don’t think it’s true of everyone, I actually do suspect that I was born this way. I knew from a very, very young age that what people told me females were designed to do sexually was wrong for me, and what people told me males were designed to do sexually was right for me. It caused me great distress as a young child, as I knew nothing about strap-ons or whatever else. I thought I was crazy, and tried desperately to try to make myself feel that bottoming sexually seemed natural and right. I was angry at my body for not being equipped to have sex right, though I didn’t think of myself as a boy.

Though I’ve also seen some references to studies that suggested that girls who had disabilities grew up to behave in ways considered more masculine as a way of coping with being impaired or sick. So who knows.

At any rate I think this is a part of who I am and not something that should be laid at the feet of society.

This is another in my series of interviews with men about masculinity. Michael was kind enough to submit his answers to me and his reflections are largely about his youth and upbringing.

I was especially interested in the distinctions that Michael drew between bodily and emotional strength. The way these ideas work in the context of masculinity is an important concept that warrants further investigation.

When was the first time you remember being aware of masculinity? How old were you? What was the cultural climate or influence?

Two things come to mind: As a child, prior to the divorce of my parents, I clearly remember that while our family was visiting a neighbor’s house and saying goodbye to go home, I was hanging off of my dad’s arm like a monkey, his arm up like a tree limb as if he was flexing his bicep. I remember thinking that I’d never do this with mom, but not dwelling on why. He was clearly the Patriarch in that setting, no other children around. I would have been in the single digits, age-wise. 1970s.

Also, the college atmosphere in general made me more aware of it. In high school we all were just kids, but now we were becoming ADULTS, with adult goals and such. Sex was more present than in the high school atmosphere which while I know that some was going on, it wasn’t something I regarded as a big deal or glorified, despite hearing guy talk of conquests to the contrary. So in this case, I think the idea of maturity was tied into it. Early 20s, in the early 1990s.

Do you think of yourself as masculine? Why or why not?

I didn’t in the past. Being more cerebral than athletic, I left masculinity to the guys who were chasing balls on a court or field. Once I reached college, dating within my college interests (theatre) let talent and creativity be an appreciated characteristic instead of the physical stuff. I was making connections on a cerebral or emotional level, and then making a physical connection with the people who got that far. It’s interesting to note that the acting stuff is at heart an emotional connection, and my then-current view of masculinity didn’t play into it all.

I do think of myself as masculine now. My interests haven’t changed, and I still don’t have the body of an athlete, but these’s a difference in my brainspace. Learning what women aren’t attracted to was a great help in changing the way I thought about myself and masculinity. I could only give you generalities, and there are exceptions to everything, but in learning about myself and being objective, I could eliminate my mindset of being the “nice guy,” “big brother,” or “friend” in relationships with women. I didn’t choose that for myself, but once I had identified it, I could adjust my behavior and interactions with both genders to be more masculine, and enjoyed the change. Here we’re talking my late 20s, well after college.

It was incredibly difficult to change a lifetime of behavior, but the result was worth it. For years, I thought that to become more masculine, and in turn be thought of as attractive by those who appreciated masculinity, that I had to engage in behavior that I found off-putting, i.e. treating women poorly, instead of as something special. When I realized that I could keep what makes me ME, and sheer away the non-masculine behavior that wasn’t earning me any points with anyone, it was a revelation, i.e. you tease the woman instead of complimenting her constantly. I didn’t have to be one of those guys that treated women so badly that I shook my head when they’d keep going back for more, but I wasn’t playing puppydog to them either. I learned that masculinity isn’t muscles. I couldn’t tell you what it is in a paragraph though.

People talk about confidence, which is just as hard to define. And as to why some people have it, and others don’t, I couldn’t really tell you, because my only real thoughts about it stem from solving my problems with dating early on in life. I do know that a large part of confidence is basically being really good at living your life. And I know that a large part of masculinity is confidence.

I do consider myself masculine now, certainly. Typing it out seems egotistical, though. I know that certain people look up to me, that men and women find me attractive, but I’m not going to even guess at which came first: the masculinity or the effect from others. They definitely feed each other.

How does your masculinity relate to your sexuality (be it your orientation, preferences, or expressions)?

I identify as a heterosexual male, if I’m filling out a form for something. More importantly, I really just identify as Michael. That’s not being glib, I just think that part of being a man is not worrying about labels, or other people’s opinions. I don’t find men who aren’t masculine repulsive, and being a theatre geek and professional actor, I have more than my share of friends with varying sexualities.

I choose not to display overtly masculine cartoon characteristics, engage in guy talk or otherwise behave in a way that shows that I have no class. I keep a lot of female best friends, and love them dearly, so any guy talk is primarily done with them. You learn more that way.

Once I learned that I had sexual prowess, it really fed into my growing masculinity. And as I mentioned, that in turn made me feel more masculine. I think it’s a man’s job to “take” a woman somewhere, either physically or philosophically, so if that’s being a strong lead while dancing (and every woman who dances will tell you they like a strong lead) then so be it. If it means orgasms, then ok. It might mean cuddling with no hint of sex, or just including her in your plans for the evening. It all comes with the “job.”

Appearing vulnerable isn’t to be ignored though, although I once suggested to a lady that “she wanted a guy who could cry, just not in front of HER.” She said, “EXACTLY.” I have to be vulnerable on stage every time I walk out there, and a true connection with a woman necessitates connecting with your barriers down, but I don’t think that compromises your masculinity.

Download Bedroom Radio #21

On this episode I interview Sinclair of Sugarbutch Chronicles. We discuss gender, butch/femme identity, bdsm, and erotic blogging. You’ll also be treated to an incredibly sexy piece of erotica read by Sinclair.

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So I’m frantically getting ready for the new term at school so I’ve been a bit quiet. However, Jay has posted a few great blog entries this week. First, he did a HNT post for the first time. Exhibit:

He also wrote this gorgeous post about our play with Hania last week. Sigh. I will certainly be recounting the experience from my perspective as well but reading it from his was fun. While we were all together, I kept looking up at him and smiling. He was a bystander some of the time but he never lost the look of wonder and delight from his eyes. He is such a treasure to have as a lover and best friend.

Here are a few of his words:

Hania motioned for me to help her out of her top, then her bra. Her breasts, while smaller than Ellie’s, were very large for Hania’s small frame and quite perky. The dark almond colored areolas that we thought we saw the month before were even more sexy than Ellie and I had imagined (trust me, we spent a few nights in bed talking about Hania’s lovely body).

Ellie laid down on her back and Hania straddled her playing with her breasts. They rubbed their bodies together, kissed, sucked, and licked for almost an hour before Hania started pulling Ellie’s panties off.

I wish I had a better vantage point so I could give a play-by-play. The only thing I can say for sure is that the three of us all seemed to be enjoying ourselves. Hania’s slurping and kissing, Ellie’s moans, and my angelic expression probably express the feelings of the moment better than a verbose description could.

He also posted a really lovely photo of Hania in the rope harness that I put on her:

This weekend, we’ll be going out of town for a very impromptu weekend with Artemis and Jeff. She called me last night and we agreed that when Artemis asks for your attendance, you do what you can to make it happen. We should come home with new stories to tell and some brand new rope skills. Rope skills that I hope to use and continue improving at Dark Odyssey in a few weeks.

This is another in my series of interviews with men about masculinity. Like several of the other men interviewed, Jerry has an interest in BDSM. He expresses both joy and conflict arising from this part of his sexuality. The urge to define what authentic or “real” masculinity is appears in this narrative. It seems like something that Jerry is not sure of as I’m sure many of us are not.

When was the first time you remember being aware of masculinity? How old were you? What was the cultural climate or influence?

I can’t remember NOT being aware of masculinity. Many of my early memories are of my Moms brother and his wife who lived next door. He was big on bodybuilding and was clear and vocal about what a man and a woman should should be. He was more than a little “caveman” in his thinking. The rest of my family and most of the others I know were more in step with the times, but even at that, roles were pretty clearly defined. Our extended family would often take trips together where the men would go fishing and the women would shop. Even at the preschool age I would ask why, I, “a man” was going shopping. They said I would get to go with the men when I got a little older. And I did. While not a caveman, my Dad was still a product of the times. He would take me with him often…to the auto parts store and the hardware store. (I still love going to “Dom Depot”) When my Mom was in the hospital we, as a male family, had to have a grandma come over to cook and clean for us.
Even with that I knew girls were of more interest to me than boys and I spent much more time with the neighborhood girls than boys. And playing “show and tell” was just one of the reasons. While I got called sissy and even fag a good deal I never had any doubt about what I liked and who had it and who didn’t.

Do you think of yourself as masculine? Why or why not?

I do, but not in the context of the “caveman” or even the “father knows best”. I see myself more of a renaissance man. I want the women in my life to be educated and enlightened, whether they are a bar wench or the queen or both. I admit to retaining some issues from youth. I can’t help it that I still find it much easier to cut grass that to wash dishes. I can however cook if I can ever get my wife and our girlfriend out of the kitchen at the same time. I do see men as protector still, but know enough to share that duty with women. My wife and I are currently sharing the finer points of hunting and shooting with our girlfriend.
In life and in the bedroom (or whatever room works at the time) we are all equal partners. We each bring something different to the table (or bed) and its all good.

How does your masculinity relate to your sexuality (be it your orientation, preferences, or expressions)?

Being into BDSM and poly has been a great way to express my desire to be “lord of the manor” as well as “sex toy” (at different times) without taking, or giving up, equality in the relationship. In both BDSM and poly communication and trust are acknowledged as paramount and while men may be from Mars we need to be able to hear and express the needs and feelings of those involved. “Real men” should be able to do this.

This is another interview in my series of interviews on masculinity. Peter draws specific attention to how his heterosexual relationships with women emphasized his masculinity. In the world of dating and relationships, this is the angle that we are often most interested in. I am grateful that he chose to share this insight with us.

When was the first time you remember being aware of masculinity? How old were you? What was the cultural climate or influence?

I suspect that it was a few months before I turned 18. Sure, I’d spent my share of time ogling girls and watching porn and wanking like a savage 17-year-old, but it was never something I did with an awareness of maleness attached. But it was during my last year of high school, right after Christmas, that a long-term friend became a girlfriend. And then I discovered that she was an emotional wreck. And then I discovered that I really got off on being a knight* in shining armor, on being Atlas — on holding up her sky. That was my awakening into masculinity.

It was also a long-distance thing. She and I had gone to school together, but then I moved. By the time we became a couple, I lived some 400 miles away. It took around three months for us to get a chance to see each other for the first time since getting “together,” and even that was only for a week or two. So my knighthood developed primarily along emotional and intellectual (rather than physical) lines.

So when the time came to start sleeping together, it was complicated. I’d never even held a girl’s hand before her, and she’d had a bit of experience, most of it bad. She, like so many women, had been a victim of violent sexual abuse as a child. I knew only that I wanted to protect her, to make her feel safe, to see her really smile now and again. She wanted me to slap her around, call her names, and facefuck her. At first, I was repulsed — mostly by the cognitive dissonance caused by wanting to give her what she wanted, and having based most of my personality around the role of guardian. I’ll get back to this in answering the other questions.

*I’ve seen a lot of discourse about the mixed messages sent to women, the social imperative to be the “virgin whore,” etc. I’ve seen almost no mention of the analogue that men often face — the social imperative to be both a knight and an ogre.

Do you think of yourself as masculine? Why or why not?

The simple answer is “Yes.” The complicated answer is “Yes, but not to the exclusion of all else.” Physically, I’m a fairly big guy — 5-foot-11, 230 pounds, stronger than one might expect from a guy who exercises as little as I do. Intellectually and socially, I’m very alpha-male, most of the time. I’m also a dom, thanks in large part to the aforementioned first girlfriend, and it’s not a part of me that belongs exclusively to my sexuality. It’s also something that is a feature of my character and not just of my behavior. (I remember one time in college, some friends were hanging out at our apartment. Girl A asked Girl B about what exactly a “dom” is. Girl B struggled for a while to explain, then threw her hands in the air exasperatedly, saying “You know, like Peter!”)

Thinking about it now, it’s interesting (though not entirely surprising) that I answer the question “Are you masculine?” with “Yes, I’m dominant.” But there are a lot of ways to play the dom game, just like there are a lot of ways to play the man game, and some of those ways are preferable to others. At first, I was repulsed and confused by the things my ex wanted me to do to her. I was repulsed and confused by the idea of treating her as an object and taking from her whatever I wanted. Then I thought about it a bit and realized that when I was slapping her and calling her a whore, it wasn’t about me — it was about her. So I discovered that dominance must be tempered by love, empathy, and affection.

So those are the things I use to temper my masculinity. I can’t say for sure that I’m more of a knight than an ogre. But I play up the atmosphere of the knight, so when I act like an ogre, most people are either amused or forgiving. Everyone who knows me knows that they are rarely safer than when they’re with me, so no one takes issue when I heap insults and derision on those I love.

It’s a game of spectrums and opposites, but the trick, at least in my experience, has been to play both sides. A piano will always sound like a piano, but the effect it has on the listener depends on the skill of the player and the type of composition. I will always be a man, but the way I interact with the world, with others, and with myself will always depend on the last good book I read, the alignment of the stars, and how long it’s been since I last got laid.

So it goes.

How does your masculinity relate to your sexuality (be it your orientation, preferences, or expressions)?

I haven’t really left myself a lot of room to answer this question, I think. I’m feeling the strong impulse to talk about being a dom instead of talking about being a man. Let’s see.

I don’t think I could have sex with or be in a relationship with a woman who was taller than me. But is that a consequence of masculinity, or dominance?

I enjoy the feeling of self-mastery, and the feeling I get when others accept my authority. But is that a consequence of masculinity, or dominance?

I like being stronger than people and being smarter than people, but I also like people who are stronger than me and smarter than me. But is that a consequence of masculinity, or dominance?

I don’t know. I think that in my case, at least, the two are too interwoven to reasonably differentiate. So my masculinity is my sexuality, but that’s a masculinity rooted in Nietzsche’s Übermensch, in Kierkegaard’s “self-making man,” in hardcore pornography, in hugs and savage affection, in sunsets and oceans and the wind in the trees and leather on skin.

Jack and I go way back, he has commented on this blog under more names than I can count. I was thrilled when he started his own sex blog recently because I always knew he had this sort of thing in him. I was even more thrilled when he wanted to answer my questions on masculinity because I knew his responses would be insightful.

Like others, Jack cites male family members as clear role models but I was also interested in the images of masculinity he drew from popular culture. This is an aspect of masculinity that is discussed infrequently and deserves attention. His influences, in particular, are eclectic and not the first things that many people would associate with the word “masculine”.

When was the first time you remember being aware of masculinity? How old were you? What was the cultural climate or influence?

I guess like a lot of men my image of masculinity is very much rooted in my father. I actually grew up in a house full of women. I was raised by my mother and I had an aunt and two female cousins in the same house as us for most of my childhood.

I think playing sports with my father was when I realized “hey, this what men are supposed to be like.” My was (and still is) a brilliant man who is also athletic and very emotionally detached. I remember playing catch with him, I must have been about nine, and he threw the ball to me and he would throw these pop ups that would basically disappear into the sky and then come down like a meteor.

At home the women were emotional, moody, scattered. When I visited my father I saw someone rational, cold and very disciplined. Masculinity comes with an air of being in control. Being in control of yourself and being in control of others.

It was the mid eighties, New York, upper middle class. I also very much associated wealth and financial security with masculinity I think. My father was a business man, he wore a suit everyday and
carried a brief case and made a lot of money. He drove a BMW and owned two houses and made a point of telling me how he put himself through college.

In my late 20’s, when I finally had some financial freedom and security I remember feeling like a man more than any other time in my life.

Do you think of yourself as masculine? Why or why not?

I think of myself as pretty masculine. I’ve actually grown into masculinity. I was a lot less masculine as a kid. Or at least I felt less masculine. I was a nerd, reading too many books, fascinated by
everything. I wasn’t good at sports, I was soft. I was emotional, I cried, I lashed out, I built up all kinds of defenses. If masculinity meant being in control, I was out of control most of my life.

How does your masculinity relate to your sexuality (be it your orientation, preferences, or expressions)?

My sexual tastes are not that focused, but I would certainly say I am mostly straight. I like girls, though I occasionally am intrigued by men it is usually not a sexual kind of feeling. That being said I have been very attracted to women who dress like men and act like men in the past. Thus my old habit of falling for lesbians. Drag kings are hot, but it’s not the masculinity that turns me on as much as the masculine front with the feminine peeking out. A chubby girl in a suit and tie with a drawn on mustache is only hot if the curve of her breasts is still unable to be hidden and the smoothness of her cheeks too perfect.

That being said I am mostly attracted to feminine girls. Curves and pouting lips, large breasts and asses. My tastes shift and grow as I get older and more than anything physical intelligence and creativity are my main attractors and those things are not inherently masculine or feminine to me.

As for me I think I put off a pretty manly vibe. I certainly look and dress like a man. I am often obsessed by women and femininity. A lot of my idols are women, though. Anais Nin being the person I have read most about in life and have drawn so much from.

My idea of masculinity is rooted in my father, Indiana Jones, Batman, Dr Peter Venkman and Henry Miller. Smart, strong, creative, bawdy, hairy and dominant.

Some people have asked me if they can answer the questions. Absolutely! I look forward to hearing from as many people about this as possible. You can answer the questions and email your response to lumpesse AT gmail DOT com or you can post them on your own weblog. There is no need to link back to me (although I certainly don’t mind) but I would love if you sent me a link so that I could link to your responses here. The only thing I ask is that the comments of each post be left to discuss that particular post, so don’t post your answers in the comments.

I have a pretty personal investment in this next set of responses because they come from Jay, my amazing lover, best-friend, and companion. There are a lot of people that blog in isolation from their romantic partners and that makes me sad. I deeply treasure the honesty we share and the fact that he loves all of me, unconditionally. I am lucky for that.

Jay is an incredibly special person and his answers here were not news to me. But reading them has made me feel closer to him. His memories and recollections are, like many of the men I have featured, heart-breaking, thought-provoking, and raw.

When was the first time you remember being aware of masculinity? How old were you? What was the cultural climate or influence?

My earliest childhood memories (ages 2-3) are of my father physically abusing my mother. The ensuing conversations that transpired between my mother and I told me in no uncertain terms all of the negative traits that made a man.

Growing up with a single mother and 2 sisters I never really trusted any men enough to let them have a positive effect on my view of masculinity. As a child I was more submissive and feminine than most of my peers and certainly less masculine than my tom-boy sister.

Do you think of yourself as masculine? Why or why not?

Now I feel a lot more masculine than I did as a child, but I’m still a very passive person in general.

I know that many people have read about my sexual experiences online and have commented to the effect of “You’re such a man, you know what you want and you go after it.” Of course they don’t know me and the fact that I am a kind, shy, passive, gentle person (or at least they look over those facts as I do try to write about them).

How does your masculinity relate to your sexuality (be it your orientation, preferences, or expressions)?

I’m the quiet, shy, rebellious type (wait, is there a type like that?). I look for any way I can to play with people’s traditional concepts whether it is family values, religion, or sexuality/gender. My orientation is bisexual, although right now I’m swinging back toward heteroflexible.

In kink play, BDSM, and parties I prefer to dress up as a woman and take a dominant role (which is a lot of fun since I have a very full beard). At a recent party I was dressed as Jackie O and spent most of my “play time” whipping the bejesus out of a tiny little woman in front of a rather large audience… if that gives you any idea ;)