Comments on: loose women http://www.lumpesse.com/2007/02/loose-women/ Tue, 06 Jan 2009 00:31:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Lumpesse http://www.lumpesse.com/2007/02/loose-women/#comment-19199 Lumpesse Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:10:06 +0000 http://lumpesse.com/?p=244#comment-19199 [...] a classroom and when I open a blog post and how (if ever) those two things are meant to interact. (I have written about this before). I also thought a lot about my responsibilities to my clients and friends and this session made me [...] [...] a classroom and when I open a blog post and how (if ever) those two things are meant to interact. (I have written about this before). I also thought a lot about my responsibilities to my clients and friends and this session made me [...]

]]> By: R http://www.lumpesse.com/2007/02/loose-women/#comment-10393 R Sun, 11 Mar 2007 16:34:42 +0000 http://lumpesse.com/?p=244#comment-10393 You are so wonderful, Ellie! I adore your character! Much love, Always, -R- You are so wonderful, Ellie! I adore your character!

Much love,
Always,
-R-

]]> By: sean http://www.lumpesse.com/2007/02/loose-women/#comment-9931 sean Tue, 27 Feb 2007 19:41:44 +0000 http://lumpesse.com/?p=244#comment-9931 Next time try asking your students how they'd view the poem if it had been written about the same behavior in a man. Or better yet, have them re-write the poem entirely while making it about a man. If you want them to consider alternative points of view, I have found with most students in this day and age that you have to start by actually giving them one - and one they can wrap their TV/PSP addled minds around. (Being semi-humorous, here.) But I think you would have perhaps made your point better by pointing out that similar behavior in men is condoned, somewhat even encouraged - and yet women are condemned for it. Why? <em>Oh yes, that was quite part of the discussion. But I wanted to move past the cliched "double standard" cop-out. Another thing is that the double-standard discussion doesn't even make sense in the context of that poem. The woman is called loose for even daring to leave her home and venture into the world. It isn't even about sexual morality other than the ways that it is used to attack people. - ellie</em> Next time try asking your students how they’d view the poem if it had been written about the same behavior in a man. Or better yet, have them re-write the poem entirely while making it about a man. If you want them to consider alternative points of view, I have found with most students in this day and age that you have to start by actually giving them one - and one they can wrap their TV/PSP addled minds around. (Being semi-humorous, here.) But I think you would have perhaps made your point better by pointing out that similar behavior in men is condoned, somewhat even encouraged - and yet women are condemned for it. Why?

Oh yes, that was quite part of the discussion. But I wanted to move past the cliched “double standard” cop-out. Another thing is that the double-standard discussion doesn’t even make sense in the context of that poem. The woman is called loose for even daring to leave her home and venture into the world. It isn’t even about sexual morality other than the ways that it is used to attack people. - ellie

]]> By: john http://www.lumpesse.com/2007/02/loose-women/#comment-9676 john Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:40:51 +0000 http://lumpesse.com/?p=244#comment-9676 It is something central to the postmodern dilemma. We try to change the meanings of words instead of changing how we react to actions. Words take on connotations and that has value because complex words bring color to language. Asking people to see a word in different terms is as impossible as it is useless. Whore means everything it has come to mean. If a person calls themselves a whore and then tells you the word doesn't mean what they think it means then language has not succeeded. At least that's how I see it. There are a lot of words, neutering obscenity (even if it is well intentioned) makes dirty talk a lot harder. <em>I appreciate the comments but I think that you might have missed the point of the exercise. I wasn't trying to convince my students that it is neutral rather to point out that it seems to be the message of the poem. I still feel like a hypocrite, though. - ellie</em> It is something central to the postmodern dilemma. We try to change the meanings of words instead of changing how we react to actions. Words take on connotations and that has value because complex words bring color to language. Asking people to see a word in different terms is as impossible as it is useless.

Whore means everything it has come to mean. If a person calls themselves a whore and then tells you the word doesn’t mean what they think it means then language has not succeeded.

At least that’s how I see it. There are a lot of words, neutering obscenity (even if it is well intentioned) makes dirty talk a lot harder.

I appreciate the comments but I think that you might have missed the point of the exercise. I wasn’t trying to convince my students that it is neutral rather to point out that it seems to be the message of the poem. I still feel like a hypocrite, though. - ellie

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