12 Responses for "Some Pitfalls of Non-Monogamy"

1. Amber July 3rd, 2008 at 10:38 am

   I think there’s a difference between someone who knows the blogger and/or is within the community pointing out dishonest behavior, and someone basically projecting their own insecurities with non-monogamy onto a blogger and using the convenient “excuse” of bad behavior as a justification. I think it has to be taken on a case by case basis. Sometimes “confessional” writing is cathartic, and there can be value in putting it out there. But I think looking for patterns is also important. But ultimately, none of us get to tell others how they should live their lives.

   Hope that made sense.

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2. Amber July 3rd, 2008 at 10:43 am

   One other thing, as I just finished reading Tom Paine’s post.

   I can appreciate his sentiment, but he loses me with this:

   A rapist blogger, no matter how good his prose, would likely generate outrage among the same bloggers taking me to task for being “judgemental.” Same with pedophilia. So is it different to hold another blogger to standards of morality or decency?

   Sorry, but that’s the same line of reasoning anti-gay folks use. We wouldn’t approve of rape, pedophilia, or bestiality, so why homosexuality! Uh, maybe because, out of those four, only ONE involves CONSENT??

   I also don’t buy the “it’s on the internet, therefore open for public critique” line. I think that’s far too simplistic. People have a variety of reasons for putting their writing on the internet, and while it’s true that unless your blog is password protected (and really not even then) you can’t control who reads it, different types of behavior/discussion are appropriate for different types of blogs. a blog about national politics is not the same thing as a blog about an individual’s struggle with cancer, for an extreme example.

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3. Gabe July 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am

   Now, most of you might be thinking, ?Jesus, Ellie, you have Jay and you have these other people, you are so lucky, stop complaining!? I can?t say that I even have an answer to that sentiment other than the gut feeling that I both know how lucky I am and still want to honor the challenges that our little household faces on a daily basis.

   I think it’s certainly reasonable (if not always easy) to really know that you’re lucky, blessed, in a good place while still honoring that it comes with difficult work, hard to manage emotional responses, etc. I don’t think any sort of good place in life is a reason to dismiss those very real responses. That’s like people asking why you’re complaining when other people have bigger problems. Yeah, bigger problems are worse, but the ones I have are mine.

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4. Ellie July 3rd, 2008 at 10:45 am

   Amber – I think you are right that confessional writing can be cathartic. In fact I don’t begrudge anyone the ability to confess any number of sins on their blogs. However, I think expecting that the world should be this happy fun place that embraces them just for the fact that they were brave enough to write it on the internet is both naive and ridiculous.

   The thing is that we do get to tell others how to live their lives on a daily basis. Down to the most minute and inconsequential social and etiquette-driven interactions, we do this all the time. What others get to do is ignore our ideas about how they should run their lives.

   I completely see where you are coming from. It is a gut reaction to what seems like a judgmental statement. For me, though, life is about judgments. In fact all we have is a series of them from the day we are born until we die. It is what we do with those judgments and how we process them that is important.

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5. Ellie July 3rd, 2008 at 10:48 am

   Oh, and in response to your other comment, I think that consent is the crux of this issue. Tom is attacking another blogger for lying and taking other sexual partners without the consent of the person she promised to be monogamous for. I don’t think the analogy is particularly wrong-headed except in terms of severity. (I do bristle, though, at the general trope of “lets compare this to rape and pedophilia!”) I don’t think that lying needs any comparison. We all learned why it is wrong to lie to the people you love back in kindergarten.

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6. Ellie July 3rd, 2008 at 10:55 am

   Gabe – Thanks for the reassurance. At the same time I am recognizing the merits of having someone point out why I am lucky. It reminds me of the constant support and help that Jay is in my life and that he is there for me to go snuggle with.

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7. arbitronListener July 3rd, 2008 at 10:38 pm

   >Many of my clients are married or in relationships. I have deeply complex and conflicted feelings about my place in their lives.

   Ellie, i wonder if you might elaborate on those feelings?

   Love the new theme : )

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8. Caroline July 4th, 2008 at 9:23 am

   I don?t think that a sex blogger has an obligation to be honest to anyone other than their romantic partners. So when I see someone that is being honest with everyone but their romantic partners, it rubs me the wrong way.

   This is what gets me too. The “just being honest” thing pisses me off a great deal anyway (I mean shit, wasn’t Tom Paine just being honest, ffs?!). I admit I wouldn’t have gone wading in so strong if it hadn’t have been for that nasty “you’re just jealous” thing, but I still meant what I said. That said, what Amber says – “I also don?t buy the ?it?s on the internet, therefore open for public critique? line.” I can’t disagree with that (as I say I was being especially vicious cos, well, TP and C are two of my closest mates and obviously I can’t have such things said!). I do think everything is open to criticism, but there are ‘rules’. Like big bloggers shouldn’t pick on little bloggers, for example. And simple etiquette – if someone’s writing something that’s obviously painful or whatever it’s bad form to go in with the insults.

   Plus I like what you said about the poly / cheating thing. I think you were spot on.

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9. Blanche Debris July 4th, 2008 at 10:55 am

   Hi Ellie, reading this and following a few links has inspired me to blog on some related subjects … will tweet the link (to the “other” blog) when it’s done. :)

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10. Administrator July 4th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

    Caroline – I think that you are definitely correct about there being a difference between what we can do and what we should do. But etiquette is a bit different than calling someone out when they badly need it ;) I’m glad you jumped into the fray because Tom certainly got shat on for his remarks.

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11. tom paine July 7th, 2008 at 11:28 am

    Thank you, Ellie, for the shout out. I appreciate you linking to my two posts, and I hope the conversations have been helpful. There are no easy answers with polyamory, and your openness can come back to bite you at some point. But doing it any other way seems a worse choice, so kudos to you for being up-front.

    As to Amber’s two comments, my analogy, while perhaps inaccurate, does NOT support those who are against ALT lifestyles, whether gay, poly, BDSM, etc. because as Ellie points out, those involve consent. My displeasure is with those bloggers who shout down anyone pointing out the hypocrisy of certain bloggers. While anyone is free to say “it’s my blog, I’ll write what I want,” putting it up for all to read means accepting the judgments (pro and con) and criticisms of those who read it. I have been judged by the Right for advocating non-monogamy, so I know about getting flak.

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